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Post by | | Fudgey | | on Nov 4, 2007 5:55:58 GMT -5
Hey hey hey; I'm not getting huffy puffy. You can't tell how someone is meant to be saying something over the internet...^^ That made not sense. xD Frosty - everyone is entitled to beleive whatever they want to. And everyone; just because about 2% of Islamic people blow things up doesn't mean the rest of them do! I'm studying Islam and I have to tell you, it is a beautiful and peaceful culture. And I know that I may regret it some day Stormy, but I think I shall shut it down some time mid-January. I'm getting tired of Warriors just like Meow and I think that real-life is a little more important. But I'm not gonna go out of touch with you guys!
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Post by Waagh on Nov 4, 2007 9:38:00 GMT -5
Frosty - everyone is entitled to beleive whatever they want to. And everyone; just because about 2% of Islamic people blow things up doesn't mean the rest of them do! I'm studying Islam and I have to tell you, it is a beautiful and peaceful culture. ------- BWAHAHA. YOU THINK I DIDN'T KNOW THAT!? THEY MAY HAVE HAD AN AWESOME CULTURE, BUT THEY WERE BY NO MEANS PEACEFUL. Arabs crushed the Egyptians completely in the sixteenth century. Poor Egyptians. ;~; I can't name the rest, but I can assure you, they fight as much as Christians.
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Post by Lolwut on Nov 4, 2007 10:02:05 GMT -5
Now that I think of it, you must be lying, because Islam = Religion -cough- Unless you mean the Islamic Peoples, IE- Muslims
You're calling me prejudiced, when you cannot see the truth in front of your very eyes! You're trying to convert me, even when I say no. Don't say you're not, because you are. I can sense that 'Oh fine, this is going to happen to you anyway' vibe. So. This is all I have to say. Don't fxxking try to convert me. I don't want to know Jesus, he can go scr3w himself. I don't want to know Christianity, either, it can go scr3w itself. Nor do I care if I go to hell, because it sure as hell(Pun o=) would be better than Christian Heaven!
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Post by kittywinkins on Nov 4, 2007 13:43:27 GMT -5
And I know that I may regret it some day Stormy, but I think I shall shut it down some time mid-January. I'm getting tired of Warriors just like Meow and I think that real-life is a little more important. But I'm not gonna go out of touch with you guys! --- Same here, ol girl. ;-)
You're calling me prejudiced, when you cannot see the truth in front of your very eyes! You're trying to convert me, even when I say no. Don't say you're not, because you are. I can sense that 'Oh fine, this is going to happen to you anyway' vibe. So. This is all I have to say. Don't fxxking try to convert me. I don't want to know Jesus, he can go scr3w himself. I don't want to know Christianity, either, it can go scr3w itself. Nor do I care if I go to hell, because it sure as hell(Pun o=) would be better than Christian Heaven! ---- ......
Here's something I cannot understand about you... How could someone be so smart, and yet be so utterly and completely stupid at exactly the same time? It just.. does not make sense...
Oh, and if I am trying to convert you to Christianity, as you say(Which I am not. I'm trying to prove that you are wrong. I am NOT trying to convert. Learn the difference, my dear), then YOU must be trying to convert ME to aethiesm! And maybe you are.
But again, you are an idiot. Pure and frankly. You think that going to hell would be better than going to heaven?
Boy, are YOU in for a biiiig suprise.
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Post by Pessimistic One on Nov 4, 2007 20:51:02 GMT -5
... No comment about current conversation. --backsupintoacorner--
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Post by | | Fudgey | | on Nov 5, 2007 2:58:23 GMT -5
Frosty; stop being such a drama queen! .... king.
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Post by kittywinkins on Nov 5, 2007 11:52:28 GMT -5
I thought he left the forum, anyway...
Why does he keep coming back, then? Hmmm?
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Post by Cari on Nov 5, 2007 18:04:37 GMT -5
Because he's interested in what we have to say, cuz he wants to argue with us. Ah well. I'm done. I've said my piece. *sits down and chugs down glass of water* Oh- and just for the record, Frosty, if you see this, I wasn't trying to convert you either.
Oh, and Stormy, I forgot where we left it, but Martin Luther did take out some books from the Bible when he translated it. I'm not sure which ones he took out, but I know that he did. Just so you know. (And I'm sure you did know) And, about purgatory, I don't know what you think/know/think you know about it, but just to clarify it's a place of purification before you enter into heaven. If you look in John, chapter 11,Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead, right? Well, if he had gone to hell, Jesus couldn't bring him back, because once you're in hell you can't come out (Luke 16:26). And heaven hadn't been opened yet, so unless Lazarus was in a third place (purgatory), he couldn't have been raised from the dead. The same thing happens in Acts 9:36-41. Then in 1 Peter 13:19-20, it says "...in which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey..." What would be the use of preaching to them if they were in Heaven or Hell? Just a note: The word "purgatory" isn't found in the Bible, but neither are "Trinity", "Incarnation", or "Rapture". The Catholic Church has prayed for the dead (that is, the souls in purgatory) since it's beginning (The church began with Peter, it's first pope- Matthew 16:18), as did and do the Jews, who pray for them during the feasts of Booths, Passover, and Weeks.
One last note: Whatever I say Stormy, I'm not tying to convert you, I'm just trying to make sure you know what the Catholic Church REALLY teaches, because there are a lot of misconceptions. I will always be on friendly terms with you and respect your faith.
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Post by kittywinkins on Nov 5, 2007 19:47:38 GMT -5
And heaven hadn't been opened yet, so unless Lazarus was in a third place (purgatory), he couldn't have been raised from the dead. The same thing happens in Acts 9:36-41. --- Right. That might make sense, but where the heck does it say that heaven had not been opened yet? I might be reading you wrong here, Silver, but how I understand it, what you're saying is that heaven was not open to people yet, so when they died, they either went to hell, or to your purgatory, so none of the people, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David, none of them actually went to heaven until it was 'opened'?
And if none of them did get into heaven, until it was opened, tell me when WAS it opened? When Jesus died, or when he decended into hell, or when Mary saw him alive again?
No offense, I'm just curious as to what you mean.
Oh, and here's another question. If Luther did take out books of the Bible, as you say, pray tell me, which ones did he take out?
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Post by Cari on Nov 6, 2007 23:59:27 GMT -5
Well, let me start by saying- because of original sin, we couldn't get to heaven, because we were forever marked by it (original sin), right? So God sacrificed Jesus, His only Son, so that we might be made sinless and get to heaven to be with Him. Wasn't that what Jesus came to do? And so, when Jesus died, He went to judge the people who had died (that is, the people in purgatory, because once they had gone to hell they couldn't get out) and take them to heaven if they were ready. (If they weren't ready, they would stay in purgatory until their soul had been purified and then enter into heaven, because nothing impure can enter in heaven [Revelation 21:27]) After all, in Colossians 1:18, it says "He is the head of the body, the church, he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead..." and then in 1 Corinthians 15:20-21, it states "But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died. For since death came through a human being (Adam), the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being. (Jesus)" Of course, I added "(Adam)" and "(Jesus)". 1 Corinthian 15:12 says "Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised form the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection from the dead?" So therefore, Jesus is the reason for our salvation- He opened heaven to us. I'm not sure about the people you mentioned, but I am inclined to think that yes, they did go to purgatory. (I still have A LOT to learn about my faith since there's so much- so I don't know everything) And another note on purgatory: In Isaiah 6:1-7, Isaiah sees God, but being an impure human being, the angel must come with the burning coal. At this the angel says "Now that this has touched your lips, your guilt has departed and your sin is blotted out." This is like purgatory. The cleansing fire "melts" away our sin so we may be perfectly pure so as to see God. Also, I'm not exactly sure which books Luther took out, but I'm pretty sure it was Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, and First and Second Maccabees, plus parts of the book Esther 10:4-16:24, and Daniel 3:24-90; 13:1-14:42. No offense taken. And by the way, I remembered you saying a while back that you are a "very confessional Lutheran." What does that mean? Just wondering...
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Post by kittywinkins on Nov 7, 2007 2:30:31 GMT -5
Hmm... okay. Like you, I'm a young learner of my faith, but... Like you, I agree, we are born with origional sin, and, by all fairness, we should all be condemmed to hell, but as.. I think it's somewhere in John(I always memorized the bible verses, but never where they came from, even though I should have. Aren't I terrible?) says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only son to die for us, so that whoever believes shall not perish, but have eternal life" Jesus came down to earth so that he could live the perfect life that we could not, and so he died, and sacrificed himself for us. But my argument against purgatory is this: God promised his people a savior long, long ago. But because his people didn't have Jesus dying for them yet, they burned animals to God instead. Sacrifices. This appears time and again all over the Bible. Cain and Able offered sacrifices to God, as did Abraham and Isaac, after the angel of God stopped Abraham from killing his son as God had commanded him. Elijah built an alter to God and proved to the prophets of Baal that his God was more powerful than theirs. King Saul performed the sacrifice instead of the priest, and because of that, he was condemmed. They often offered the best of their crops, or the best of their flock to God. They also offered sacrifices before wars(like King Saul did). But they also did it in atonement for their sins. God would accept the burnt sacrifice, and would forgive them. I believe there is several things about this in one of the books of Moses.. either Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy, I can't remember which one. There were so many instructions in those books, they tend to blend together in my head. Of course, after Jesus died, there was no more need to sacrifice animals to God, because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.
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Post by | | Fudgey | | on Nov 8, 2007 2:39:08 GMT -5
*nods wisely in the same manner as she does in French class* I agree.
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Post by Pessimistic One on Nov 8, 2007 15:01:05 GMT -5
I'm not following any of this, never mind even actually reading what's going on. >> --hidesinacorner--
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Post by kittywinkins on Nov 8, 2007 16:36:39 GMT -5
I'm not following any of this, never mind even actually reading what's going on. >> --hidesinacorner-- *****
Why bother even posting, then, since you have nothing productive to say. Hmmm?
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Post by Candy on Nov 8, 2007 18:51:28 GMT -5
Why bother even posting, then, since you have nothing productive to say. Hmmm? ----- Because she's making a point that following your argument of Christianity and all that makes no scense what so ever and this argument has no point.Its pointless and should be deleted. [/size]
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